Tuesday, February 23, 2010

According to Ray Comfort I am now an adulterer. Fortunately my wife just thinks I am cute.

Last night I was out at a bar in Seattle relaxing with some co-workers. I was introduced to an absolutely beatiful young lady who said she was 23. We struck up a conversation and it shortly became clear that she was attracted to me. I was flattered and continued to chat with her, turning on the charm a little bit. Soon she was sliding closer to me, resting her hand on her face and looking at me adoringly. I was thrilled that at 41 I still have game. I even imagined how nice it would be to take her up on her advances. More out of ego than any actual desire to have sex with her. My co-worker another lovely young woman started trying to intervene, mentioning my wife and family and finally just out and out saying "He's married!" My admirer was not deterred in the slightest. Eventually my friend said she wanted me to walk her back to the hotel, and being a gentelman I agreed. When we left she said to me "What were you doing, she was so ready to sleep with you?" I responded that I knew that but I wouldn't have done anything. She said she didn't know that and had to look out for my wife.

I just told my wife this story and she laughed and told me to thank my friend for her. Now Ray Comfort and other preachers qualify what I did as commiting adultery in my heart. Now as an atheist that means nothing to me. Neither fundementalist preachers nor imaginary gods have opinions that matter to me. The only one who's opinion on the subject matters is my wife and she just finds my flirtatious ways adorable. I think she is as proud that beautiful young women want me as I am. Of course it helps that she knows I would never commit real adultery with anyone.

31 comments:

Abe said...

Great story n' been there too...
flattered at 60.
It's funny that these good christians love to torment themselves.... 'Oh dear, hell fer eternity, better get down on my knees n' pray'.
If they could only have our freedom... to think.
Ray Comfort n' crooney christian crew have been some of me best Sunday comics.

Ryk said...

It seems just silly to me. The idea of eternal torture for something that harms absolutely no one. I guess it isn't any wierder than other superstitions but seriously...

I enjoy the Ray Comfort Comedy show but it gets a little much sometimes.

Tracy said...

Adultery has devasting ripple effects for many people.

If you committed adultery in your heart with this 23 yr. old, she suffered from your rejection.

Typically those that think they are strong in an area are the ones that stumble.

Sin is fueled by our thoughts.

I'm glad that your co worker intervened. Also that your wife is secure in your faithfulness toward her. (At least in the sense of not engaging sexually in adultery.)

I honestly wouldn't be alright with my husband coming home with a story like that. Secure or not.

What are you going to do if Jesus is real and His viewpoint of adultery is correct? Waht if you're wrong?

Seek after the truth.

Ryk said...

What am I going to do if Jesus is real?

The same thing you would do if Allah, Odin, Zeus or Vishnu or real I imagine. I don't find it productive to speculate on things for which there is no evidence.

I could spend all of my time wondering if Xenu the space God is angry that I go to doctors, or Vishnu is upset over my eating beef or Allah over my eating pork.

However why would I concern myself over that.

Ryk said...

The Idea that she suffered from my rejection is an interesting one however. I don't see that as likely considering the way we parted and the fact that she was knowingly flirting with a married man. However I can't know anyones inner thoughts so it is possible. By my standards that would be something I am accountable for morrally. I will have to give that some thought.

Tracy said...

I was just hoping that you would concern yourself with the reality of Jesus in particular. Can't blame a Christian for trying.

I think the woman's suffering was that of disappointment. And physically... if you catch my drift.

Ryk said...

@Tracy

I was suffering physically in that respect myself. ;)

Tracy said...

God says if you look at a woman to lust after her then you are an adulterer at heart.
Also if you hate then you're a murderer at heart.

I read that many times after I had become a Christian and I didn't take it literally. I didn't think it was fair. I thought committing a sexual act outside of marriage was far worse than lustfully looking at a man or going there with my thoughts. (I found pleasure in flirting around w/ lustful thoughts. There's a measure of excitement and danger associated w/ it. There IS pleasure in sin. It's the consequenses that follow that make entertaining sin NOT worth it.) I also thought that death by murder was far worse than hating someone for wronging me.

I realized that God doesn't view sin as I do- with degrees. All degrees of sin are equally horrible to God and cost the life of Jesus to reconcile mankind unto Himself.

I understood about passages to be taken literally- as lust/adultery and hate/murder. And those that are metaphoric as in- cut off your hand if it causes you to sin.

I learned this by just being straight up with God about it. I reasoned with Him and He taught me His ways.

You can reason and articulate things so well with people. I wish you'd just tell God Himself inspite of your unbelief. I wish you'd just shove all your doubts to the left and press in and seek God for explanations. If God is indeed the author of the Bible wouldn't He best know how to reveal exactly what He means? Otherwise we are left with others' revelations which can be God's truth or man's interpretation which can be heretical.

I tell you the truth based on what God has taught me. It's clear that I thought God's word was unfair and that sin had levels of worseness. I now agree with God. That change came b/c He proved He was right and I was wrong.

I felt the conviction that comes from lustful behavior. You can literally see lust on the face of an individual. It's a hot, attracting force. lust is the opposite of love. One can make it physical lust without emotion or love.

Purity between man and wife isn't some prayerful hands, boring experience. It's beautiful. God created us to be sexual beings. Satan's way is lust and God's way is purity.

Ryk said...

I agree with you that monogamy between a husband and wife is not boring. However I don't agree that lust is the opposite of love. I see the two as seperate but complementary, While I can love without lusting and lust without loving, feeling that primal overpowering lust towards the woman I love is the perfect thing. It is like chocolate and peanut butter. Two great tastes that go great together.

Tracy said...

I don't mean lust as in deep desire or passion.

I mean it in the sense of lasciviousness, wanton, or even lewd. So lust would seem to be the opposite of love in this sense.

Cheesecake and coffee is better!

rhiggs said...

"What are you going to do if Jesus is real and His viewpoint of adultery is correct? Waht if you're wrong?"


I wager that Tracy hasn't heard of Pascal...

Ryk said...

@Rhiggs

Having talked to Tracy often I am sure she understands Pascals Wager she just doesn't care. The idea that faith and truth are the same thing is completely logical to her. I don't understand this but from her I respect it because she is consistent. Unlike most Christian bloggers she doesn't talk out of both sides of her mouth about it.

Many talk about faith alone one second and then go with the creation science or presuppositional arguments to try to create non faith answers. Tracy sticks with faith and while it is not always persuasive it is moreso than the alternative, and much more honest and respectable.

Tracy said...

@ rhiggs

I will take the liberty to correct my error from waht to what. (bad typer)

The thing about Pascal's wager is that he goes at this from man's efforts. No one can make believing unto salvation happen. ONLY God can! Practicing religious traditions isn't going to make you a Christian. It will just make you religious.

Man must cooperate and choose to believe in Christ. You choose to accept or reject faith in God. A default position of rejecting faith is still a choice. Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

God reveals Himself to us as we come to Him in faith. But God initiates this. God draws us unto Himself.

["No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44]

Jesus invites us to reason with Him. This is huge! I have noticed that great debaters against God have great arguments. Yet I wonder why they won't take it up with God themselves, in spite of their unbelief. This IS doable by choice.
I know that some would say that they couldn't do this just as they could not reason with pixie's. Well...Pixies aren't offering a way of escape from eternity in hell and reconcilition with God the One that created you and has a rightful place in your life.

[“Come now, and let us reason together, says the Lord. Though your sins are like scarlet,they shall be as white as snow. Though they are red like crimson,they shall be as wool."]
Isaiah 1:18

Tracy said...

@Ryk

Thank you for your words. It's interesting to see what you take away from our discussions.

You are fascinating and magnetic. You have left me with many things to consider and seek God about. You are an evangelism case of a lifetime.

More than anything I want you to understand what I share with Jesus. So you can have Jesus for yourself.

I'm praying for you, my friend!

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5

rhiggs said...

Tracy,

Your response didn't explain why Pascal's wager doesn't hold. I'm not sure if you understand it.


"The thing about Pascal's wager is that he goes at this from man's efforts. No one can make believing unto salvation happen. ONLY God can!"

I'm afraid that makes no sense to me. What do you mean by 'he goes at this from man's efforts'? The men who wrote the bible also did so from 'man's efforts'. Does this mean the bible can be dismissed too?


Also, I don't even know what 'believing unto salvation' means. But, if only God can make it happen, then surely it is his fault if it hasn't happened for me or Ryk.


Can I ask you a question?

Even though you disagree, do you understand why some people don't believe that God exists?

Tracy said...

@rhiggs

When I say Pascal is going about it from man's efforts I mean that he is trying to make faith happen apart from God and that's impossible.

Faith is not attainable through the practice of faith or religious acts. i.e. blessing yourself with holy water, having mass,etc. Acting as though you believe isn't the sort of faith God is looking for.

As I stated I believe that we must do our part and choose to believe or have faith in God. (But God makes the effect of faith happen,salvation, answered prayer, etc) It's a deliberate act of your will. If you can deliberately choose to NOT believe you can just as easily choose to believe.

There is a belief or intellectual assent that may be more understandable for you. Which could be something like you believe that George Washington once existed, was the first president, etc..

Intellectual assent is also not the sort of belief/faith that God is looking for.

He is looking for faith of the heart.
[Romans 10:9,13
"If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”]

A natural mind cannot comprehend the supernatural. You need revelation from God who is supernatural then you will understand.

I believe that the Bible was written by men that were divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. Therefore it can't be dismissed.

I can believe that because He has proven it to me to be the absolute truth.

I have been inspired myself with words or actions that have made the difference in people's lives. And other's insprired by God in the same way.

When I set myself to pray the Lord gives me the prayer. It is not something that I think of on my own. I have witnessed the proof of answered prayers of what I prayed and how those prayers effected people and situations. It's truly a God thing.

That's a small example of divine inspiration but it's a huge confirmation of how it works.

It cannot be God's fault if you and ryk don't get saved. It would be your own individual fault by choice. God has been bending over backwards for both of you to reconcile with Him and share a relationship with Him all of your lives. Even right now He's reaching out to you personally rhiggs, right through me.

Seriously, why do you suppose I am taking the time to write to you? There is nothing in it for me. It isn't for the argument or debate. I could care a less about debates. However, I care about you Mr. Rhiggs and where you will spend eternity. (I'm assuming that you are a Mr.)

Of course you can ask me a question. I am trying to understand how some people don't believe that God existed. I understand about the need for answers and proof.

I always believed that God existed, but that's not what made me a Christian and heaven bound. What made me a Christian was when God somehow confronted me with the issue of sin and I wasn't able to minimize it anymore. I saw my guilt before a holy righteous God. I saw sin from His perspective and realized I deserved the punishment of hell for it. (I didn't think my sin was worthy of hell before this experience.)And so I dealt with sin and am still dealing with sin and will be until I die.

rhiggs said...

Tracy,

Thanks for answering my question but all I'm hearing from you are personal anecdotes and your personal interpretation of God and faith. I have no reason to believe your interpretation as opposed to that of Fred Phelps.

With all due respect, I could insist that Jublubb the Magnificent is the true almighty creator, and he has revealed the absolute truth to me. Furthermore, you'd better accept him in all his glory or you'll burn in hell. Oh and if you don't automatically believe me and accept him, then its your choice but he is there crying out for you. Don't blame him if you choose to reject him.

And of course, if you choose to reject him, what if you're wrong?


I understand about the need for answers and proof.

Clearly, you don't....

Tracy said...

@ Rhiggs,

The word of my personal testimony about the things God has done for me are extremely powerful.

"They overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony." Revelation 12:11

If the word of my/our testimony can overcome Satan... I'm confident it will serve a purpose for man.

Regarding God and faith I wouldn't call them my, "personal interpretations." My understanding of who God is has nothing to do with how I interpret Him. Otherwise I could easily make a god to suit myself. One that agrees with the way I want to live my own life. But no, God's truth is revealed to me by way of the Holy Spirit.

My former mindsets about God were wrong. He lovingly and patiently corrected me and proved His true character to me.

I hear your argument about accepting Jesus or rejecting Him, and hell, etc...

I can honestly say that before I was a Christian I didn't really go there in my thoughts about hell. I believed intellectually that it was a literal place. That's what I was taught in Catholic school. I suppose I thought that God would pardon me from sin and welcome me into His kingdom based on my own goodness. I was wrong.

It's when God confronted me with the issue of sin and my guilt before Him as I mentioned previously. I didn't have a clue as to how horrible sin really was. I knew that I practiced immoral things and did things I regretted. I even considered it sin. I never saw the gravity of sin and the consequences for them until I had this understanding and did business with God. So yes, I and every other true believer had a personal revelation from God about hell. We see it as proven somehow in our hearts supernaturally.


Prior to this God had been faithfully convicting me and warning me of sin. Don't smoke something warned deep within. I ignored the warning and smoked anyway. I smoked and smoked until I simply didn't hear the warning anymore. This goes for all sin. Anybody with a conscience can attest to something convicting them of wrong. The "something" is God.

I do understand about needing answers and proof. Perhaps our questions are different. I was driven nearly crazy by my questions. If it weren't for my constant nagging God with all my questions I wouldn't have any substantial answers. The more I asked people for the answers to my questions the more I was provoked, it seems, to ask God directly. And He surely answered me just as He promises to do to those that ask, seek, and knock. He answers, you find, and the door is opened.

I can see that you're not a fan of my personal experiences. But if you read this it could at least show that I do get the question and proof thing. Copy + paste this and read it.

http://tracywagman.blogspot.com/2009/07/another-tidbit-of-my-conversion-to.html

rhiggs said...

Tracy,

"The word of my personal testimony about the things God has done for me are extremely powerful.

"They overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony." Revelation 12:11

If the word of my/our testimony can overcome Satan... I'm confident it will serve a purpose for man.
"


Do you understand that means nothing to me? Nothing at all! I don't believe the bible to be true so you are never going to convince me of anything by quoting from it as though it is some sort of authority.

I could repeat exactly what you said in your last post but insert Jublubb the Magnificent instead of God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. And it would be just as meaningless.

The point being that personal testimony is useless. This is why I don't believe that you understand the need for evidence and proof, because 99% of what you say is personal testimony. Sorry to use extremes, but Fred Phelps is just as convinced by his faith as you are by yours. Why shouldn't I believe his personal testimony?

I read your blog post. It seems to me that you needed something in your life and through the help of your friend, you found Christianity. Good for you. I'm glad it helps you. But not for one second does it mean its real. You could have found any number of religions at that particular moment in your life, or something else to fill that void.

I could have an imaginary friend who talks to me and gives me strength, thus having a tangible positive effect on my life. Just because this would be real to me doesn't mean its actually real.

I'm sorry. I mean no disrespect, but you are so far down the path of blind faith that you seem to have lost the ability to see past it. I'm sure it's great for you but it's not great for conversation when you keep quoting the bible and saying things like "God's truth is revealed to me by way of the Holy Spirit", which is meaningless to me.

All the same, you seem like a very nice person. I can see why Ryk interacts with you.

Tracy said...

@ Rhiggs,

Yes, I understand that the Bible means nothing to you.
But, it is the authority in which
I live by and I'd find it difficult not to ever incorporate verses in my discussions. I don't always use verses. I mostly talk from the heart.

Yes, I realize that you could insert any name/god in place of Jesus and it wouldn't be convincing to you.
I'm not trying to convince you. It's not my place. I'm just talking with you. I'm just doing what I can to help you understand.

I wouldn't want you to believe in God based on my personal testimony. You're right, how could you know the difference or truth between Fred Phelps' word or mine? (I don't agree with the man.)

My quest for evidence or proof is different than yours. Believing intellectually in God, Bible stories, etc...was easy for me b/c of my Catholic upbringing I guess.

I didn't need the scientific proof that you need. (Which would explain why I'm not a great debater on the subject.For me creation is evidence of a creator.) But that doesn't mean that I didn't need proof or evidence. Because I did. But, I had to come to God on His terms,which is faith.

My questions to God were like... If you wanted us to live moral lives and not sin why in the world didn't you overrule Adam and Eve's freewill to choose to sin or obey?! Why don't you overrule my freewill?!

Or... Why didn't you make us to be robots if you don't want us to sin because it's too hard to do the right thing?!

Or... If you're all about life why is there death because I HATE death?!

The proof for me is that He answered me by convincing me that He is the answer.

Now I realize that sounds ridiculous and I would've probably body slammed a Christian for telling me that. (before I was converted) It doesn't make sense at all. It just sounds absurb!

It's not an answer for everyone. It was an answer for me. That's exactly what I needed and He knew that I would respond to it.

I didn't do any of this by blind faith! I used my intellect, reasoning, emotions,and all that I am. I didn't check my brain at the door.

I know you don't believe this, but suppose God is the creator...He would've been reponsible for making you with an intelligent mind, reasoning, emotions, will, etc... Why the heck wouldn't He want you to utilize what He has given you?

I don't have some delusional imaginary friend in Jesus. I am mentally stable. I know the difference between real and fantasy.

I understand how you can come to that conclusion though for what it's worth. Your mind simply cannot wrap itself around the supernatural because you are in the natural realm. I know that I can't make you understand either. I can only hope that something, anything I say will click for you.

As for other religions and gods that are false...There is discernment. There is a deceiver. And there is the truth.

What do you fill the great void of your life with, may I ask??

Thank you for thinking I'm nice. I'm glad Ryk interacts with me. He's my favorite atheist.

Thanks for listening/reading rhiggs.

rhiggs said...

I agree that you will never make me understand.


"The proof for me is that He answered me by convincing me that He is the answer.

Now I realize that sounds ridiculous and I would've probably body slammed a Christian for telling me that. (before I was converted) It doesn't make sense at all. It just sounds absurb!

It's not an answer for everyone. It was an answer for me. That's exactly what I needed and He knew that I would respond to it.
"

You see that means nothing. You haven't actually said anything. God is not the answer to those questions.

You asked why doesn't God overrule free will....

Answer: God is the answer

You asked why is their death...

Answer: God is the answer

How is that an answer? It's not. It's just a wishy-washy ambiguous statement that means nothing.


Oh and what do you mean by a void in my life? I don't have a big God-shaped void that needs to be filled. I fill my life with all sorts of things - friends, family, love, work, play, etc.. I think it's a bit sad if you need an imaginary being in your life on top of everything else....

And of course my mind can wrap itself around the supernatural realm. I can easily imagine that what you say is true. I can imagine a lot of things. It's not too difficult to imagine a God, Jesus, sins, heaven, hell, etc. But that's all it is - imaginary.

I choose to live in the natural realm because that's where reality is. That's also where you are Tracy. You might think I'm being blunt but I don't have the kind of patience that Ryk does. From our past encounters, I expect he agrees with most of what I say, as I do with what he says. We can see the harm that religion does to people. The word 'brainwashed' is harsh but ultimately fair. It saddens me that you are wasting your life worshipping a non-existent being that evolved from a myth in primitive times.

But you are at least one of the nicer deluded people I have encountered.

Tracy said...

@rhiggs,

God gave me specific answers to the questions that I stated other than "I am the answer."

Other questions aren't answered. But I can rest asssured that all the answers to all of lives questions are found in Him.

I did say that, "I am the answer" was for me personally. It probably means nothing to many people.

If you could wrap your mind around the supernatural you would clearly understand what I'm saying. Imagining what I say to be true is completely different than knowing it for yourself.

I don't doubt that you and Ryk agree with one another. I have heard Ryk's blasphemy. I have been angered and heart broken by his words. I know where he stands. We agree to disagree.

Your impatience doesn't bother me, nor your bluntness. I appreciate people that tell me like it is.

I have seen harm in religions as well. Cults, false religions, and even in Christianity. But God is not to blame for that. People that misuse it are responsible for their own actions.

So what am I supposed to say about being a nice, deluded person?

Geez, do you think I'm mentally ill? If I was I would get help and medication.

Here's what I'll say...
I don't see any documentation in all medical history about a condition called, "Brainwashed, delusional, imaginary friend of Jesus syndrome."

I'm not trying to be sarcastic.
Seriously, are you judging me? How can you prove that I'm delusional. I'm not walking around in a trance with drool spilling out the side of my mouth. I'm just and ordinary person that chose to believe that Jesus is who He claims to be...God!

What do you think is going to happen to you when you die?

rhiggs said...

Tracy,

"Geez, do you think I'm mentally ill? If I was I would get help and medication.

Here's what I'll say...
I don't see any documentation in all medical history about a condition called, "Brainwashed, delusional, imaginary friend of Jesus syndrome."
"

No I don't think you're mentally ill, just deluded. There's a big difference. It's not a medical condition. As I said before, it's like a child with an imaginary friend. I know you insist its different, but to a child the imaginary friend is 100% real too.

Unless you have something tangible to present as evidence, then everything you think is real could be imaginary. This doesn't mean it's bad, just that it isn't necessarily real. You can still gain strength and happiness from it regardless.



"Seriously, are you judging me? How can you prove that I'm delusional. I'm not walking around in a trance with drool spilling out the side of my mouth. I'm just and ordinary person that chose to believe that Jesus is who He claims to be...God!"

Of course I can't prove that you're delusional, but I still think you are. I base this on the things you believe in without a shred of tangible evidence. Same as I can't prove there is no God, but with no evidence for him, I adopt the default position of atheism.

I know you think creation is evidence of a creator. But I don't see creation, so that doesn't work for me. I just see reality. Even if I accepted your logic, the creator himself is a creation, and thus needs a separate creator, and so on.... It's self-refuting and so does not constitute evidence.



"What do you think is going to happen to you when you die?"

Same thing that happened before I was born. I won't exist. The only difference being that I will live on in the memory of others.

What do you think will happen when you die? Be specific...

Tracy said...

@ Rhiggs,

I beg to differ, delusions are a psychotic mental disorder. A mental illness linked to schizophrenia.

There comes a time when you are able to distinguish between reality and fantasy.

My imaginary friends as a child were Elliot and Ezmerelda. I pretended they lived in the attic. Worse yet, we didn't even have an attic. I didn't gain strength and happiness from them. They were mean imaginary friends. The friendship has been over for many, many years.

I honestly don't take offense to your thinking that I am delusional. What else can you think? Explaining the gospel and trying to make someone comprehend is like trying to pull your drowning self out of the ocean. It just can't be done. Yet, I try to be the vessel that God works through. He will bring the understanding.

A defaulted position of atheism is sad. Why don't you just default to Christianity instead?

What do you mean that you don't see creation? And just see reality?
Aren't trees real? Aren't you real?

I will get back to you about what will specifically happen when I die. I'm tired.

I checked out your blog and noticed that you are from Ireland. Happy St. Patrick's Day to ya!

Tracy said...

Happy St. Patrick's Day to you too Ryk. Did you have corned beef and cabbage? Green beer?

Tracy said...

@ rhiggs,

I know that scriptures are meaningless to you, but I must use them to back up tangible evidence.
Would you be willing to read them? If so, I posted them on my blog.

http://tracywagman.blogspot.com/

rhiggs said...

Tracy,

First of all, thanks for the Patrick's Day wishes!

I'm sorry but I have no interest in reading scripture. The Bible is not evidence. The same way that the Koran, the Torah, Lord of the Rings, or The God Delusion aren't evidence.

They're books!


And delusions aren't always mental disorders. If I think something exists and it doesn't, I'm not necessarily mentally challenged. I could just be wrong. That's my impression of you. You are just wrong, not mentally challenged. I hope that clears it up.

Also, your imaginary friend story is interesting because it shows that you are genetically predisposed to believing in imaginary entities. The fact that they were mean is sad, but ultimately irrelevant. You still believed they were real, when they were imaginary.


"A defaulted position of atheism is sad. Why don't you just default to Christianity instead?"

A default position of Christianity would make no sense. If I told you there was an invisible elephant made out of mushrooms playing a violin on top of your house, what would your default position be? My guess is you would default to a-elephantism, and you would be correct to adopt this position.



"What do you mean that you don't see creation? And just see reality?
Aren't trees real? Aren't you real?
"

Yes trees are real. Yes I am real. That is part of reality, which I see. There is not one shred of evidence that these things were created in the sense that you mean.

What about the creator himself? Does he need to be created? If not, then I can simply say that energy and matter don't need a creator.

rhiggs said...

Just had a quick look at your blog Tracy.

You have a link to Ray Comfort's blog, who is one of the most dishonest people around.

Plus, you have Expelled down as one of your favourite movies.

I'm afraid my respect for you is dwindling...

Tracy said...

Rhiggs,

I won't push scriptures on you. I was just trying to back up what I was saying.

I didn't literally believe my imaginary friends were real. When I was younger and can't remember perhaps I did. I got a chuckle out of your assesment of my being genetically predisposed to believing in imaginary entities.

A mushroom elephant playing the violin doesn't offer what Jesus does.

I know that for scientific thinkers (as I assume you are) matters of faith are difficult to swallow.

I must not be a scientific thinker although I find science interesting. The theory of evolution sounds as absurd as my faith probably sounds to you.

Most of the atheists I have talked with seem exceptionally intelligent. I humbly think that you are all too smart to agree with evolution. Please don't take offense to that. I just don't understand. Even before I was a Christian, faith made more sense than evolution.

As far as Ray Comfort.. I am unaware of his dishonesty. Call him on it. I have checked his blog, but I don't follow it. I post it for anyone viewing my blog as a resource. I do, however, agree with his approach to using the 10 commands in witnessing. I'm not bound to evangelsitic programs though. I speak from the heart.

And Expelled... Obviously atheists aren't going to be fans. I thought it was interesting. Lots to absorb.

As far as what is going to happen to me when I die, specifically...

I believe that when I am at the threshold of eternity and breathe my last breath, that when I am absent from my body I will be present with the Lord. As according to the scriptures.

How do you know for certain that you won't exist after death?...specifically
Regards,
Tracy

rhiggs said...

Tracy,

"A mushroom elephant playing the violin doesn't offer what Jesus does."

And with that answer, I can see that you have entirely missed the point. It doesn't matter what they offer. I'm trying to explain why the default position is to not believe in something for which there is no evidence. The elephant is like God to me. My question was, on hearing about the elephant, would your instinct tell you to believe in it or not?

Of course you wouldn't.

But what if someone told you on a blog that the elephant really did exist, you just have to have faith in it first, and then you'll get the proof. Would that convince you?


"The theory of evolution sounds as absurd as my faith probably sounds to you."

That's fine with me. But there is a huge amount of tangible evidence for evolution, so that's why I believe it.


"Most of the atheists I have talked with seem exceptionally intelligent. I humbly think that you are all too smart to agree with evolution."

And I think you are too smart to believe in talking snakes, magic apples and a man who rose from the dead and is his own father. Seriously Tracy, why do you think there is a correlation between intelligence and atheism? What is the obvious answer?


"As far as Ray Comfort.. I am unaware of his dishonesty. Call him on it."

He is called on it every day on his blog. He has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to atheism or evolution. 95% of the comments there point out his inaccuracies and lies, but he rarely responds and simply continues to use the same arguments, proclaiming that no one has ever refuted them. That's what I call dishonesty. But if you are OK with that, then keep the link.


"I believe that when I am at the threshold of eternity and breathe my last breath, that when I am absent from my body I will be present with the Lord. As according to the scriptures."

In other words, you just believe what it says in the bible.

What do you mean by absent from your body? Like flying in the air or what? Also, what do you mean by present with the Lord? Is God not everywhere anyway? Surely, you are already present with him.

What is the point of life on earth Tracy? Are we just an experiment of God's? Why aren't people just born in heaven, where everything is fine and dandy, and there's no sin?

It makes absolutely no sense in anyway whatsoever.


"How do you know for certain that you won't exist after death?...specifically"

Of course I don't know for certain. But I don't believe in an afterlife because there is no evidence for it. Nothing has ever come back to tell us that there is an afterlife. In my experience, when people die, they cease to exist, so that is what I expect will happen.



I might end our discussion here if that's OK with you Tracy. I can't see us finding any common ground. Feel free to respond to what I've said above if you want to. It's been nice talking with you.

Tracy said...

I'm good rhiggs. Thank you for listening while you did and agreeing to disagree. Take care.